Warning: TradeFortress' Bitcointalk.org scam

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Warning: TradeFortress' Bitcointalk.org scam

Postby dchapes » Thu May 16, 2013 6:01 pm

Warning: do not trust account rH3bZsvVUhzugvcYuJVoSYCEMHkfK6wHNv for BTC.
Possibly, also check that no account that you trust for BTC, in turn trusts that address [edit: see below, so far it looks like other accounts are not at risk].

The relevant post on bitcointalk.org is: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic ... msg2166173
Do not follow the instructions at that post.

The user TradeFortress is purposely misleading people to get them to trust that account for 100 BTC in exchange for a 1 BTC IOU that he explicitly says he will not honour.

In Ripple if you extend trust to an account that means you trust them (obvious I'd hope). If you extend trust to a user it also means they can make payments through you. Effectively by trusting TradeFortress for 100 BTC you allow him or any account that he gives BTC IOUs to to make payments through you for BTC. If you have a balance of BTC at a gateway, or friends that trust you for BTC those balances can be changed if you extend this trust.

TradeFortress is misleading new users to either attempt to demonstrate that his BTC IOUs are worthless, confuse new users, or worse, to attempt to cause people to lose their gateway BTC balance and then blame it on Ripple.

Ripple will do what you tell it to. If you tell Ripple you trust TradeFortress for 100 BTC than Ripple will believe you. I would hope it would be obvious that his account is not trustworthy but he is specifically targeting those people with the least knowledge of Ripple.

If you only trust trusted users/gateways then you are fine.
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Re: Bitcointalk.org scam alert

Postby rerunmedia » Thu May 16, 2013 6:14 pm

What is the procedure for confirming that no account that we trust has trusted the account in question?

- Kevin
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Re: Bitcointalk.org scam alert

Postby dchapes » Thu May 16, 2013 6:31 pm

rerunmedia wrote:What is the procedure for confirming that no account that we trust has trusted the account in question?
You can check the Ripple Live Graph. But as long as you haven't extended BTC trust lines to naive friends that might have fallen for this then you're fine.

Looking at the live graph indicates that most people partaking in this "exercise" have no incoming trust lines. There are a small few that do have trust to Bitstamp however. So far only one transaction has routed through this "trust network" (or should I say mis-trust) to Bitstamp and for only 0.0001 BTC.
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Re: Bitcointalk.org scam alert

Postby bitaccum » Thu May 16, 2013 6:35 pm

Please explain the danger. He did say he will redeem the BTC IOUs for real BTC although he doesn't give a procedure other than to PM him...

) I won't defraud/scam you out of any money. Yes, you can convert the BTC I send you to real BTCs. For continued discussion, send me a PM, responses will be deleted from this point.


I don't understand what can happen when you trust multiple sources of BTC, so I don't know what the effects of that could be. Could you elaborate on the possible disasters that could happen by trusting TradeFortress for 100 BTC and simultaneously trusting Bitstamp for BTC?
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Re: Bitcointalk.org scam alert

Postby dchapes » Thu May 16, 2013 6:40 pm

bitaccum wrote:I don't understand what can happen when you trust multiple sources of BTC, so I don't know what the effects of that could be. Could you elaborate on the possible disasters that could happen by trusting TradeFortress for 100 BTC and simultaneously trusting Bitstamp for BTC?
Ripple treats the same currency code as 1:1 exchangeable. If you trust him for 100 BTC and have 500 BTC/Bitstamp than he can make a 100 BTC payment to anyone accepting BTC/Bitstamp through you. He may not intend to do that but anyone he gave 1 BTC/TF to can also make a 1 BTC payment through TF, you, and Bitstamp thus lowering your Bitstamp balance. Your BTC balance with TF would increase but it seems unlikely he'd honor that as "you can convert the BTC I send you" doesn't cover that. If he changes his mind and honors all his IOUs then there really isn't any problem other than I doubt people trusting him actually trust him as much as they do (for example) Bitstamp.
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Re: Bitcointalk.org scam alert

Postby bitaccum » Thu May 16, 2013 6:50 pm

dchapes wrote:If he changes his mind and honors all his IOUs then there really isn't any problem other than I doubt people trusting him actually trust him as much as they do (for example) Bitstamp.


This is the part I don't understand. He said he would pay out real BTC for the IOUs. Of course whether that's true or not is another story, but he did say that - so I'm unsure of where you're getting the idea that he said he wouldn't redeem the IOUs for real BTC.
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Re: Bitcointalk.org scam alert

Postby dchapes » Thu May 16, 2013 7:10 pm

bitaccum wrote:This is the part I don't understand. He said he would pay out real BTC for the IOUs.
He gave absolutely no such assurances in his initial post. If he honours all the IOUs he's generating then at worst he'll be a new BTC gateway. But unlikely one that people extending him trust actually should trust as much as existing gateways.


bitaccum wrote:Of course whether that's true or not is another story, but he did say that - so I'm unsure of where you're getting the idea that he said he wouldn't redeem the IOUs for real BTC.
This user has been hell bent on telling people far and wide how he thinks Ripple is a scam. He's offered to pay people 5 BTC to post a specific large red "warning" in their signatures if they have a post on the first page of the bitcointalk OpenCoin giveaway. He has repeatedly claimed that IOUs in general are worthless and effectively stated any IOUs from him should be treated as such.

The quote of his you gave is from this post and is in response to someone asking:
B) what is to stop you cleaning out *other* people's BTC accounts!
to which his reply was (as you said):
TradeFortress wrote:I won't defraud/scam you out of any money. Yes, you can convert the BTC I send you to real BTCs.
Taken in context I took this as meaning that he doesn't intend to directly take your BTC/Bitstamp (or other gateway BTC) but that other people can convert his BTC IOU into real BTC (e.g. by finding a payment path to Bitstamp as the transaction above did). This isn't a promise that he'll redeem anything.


Perhaps I'm over-reacting to his little experiment. If his BTC (mis)trust network stays self contained it's harmless, just as the XTS and XXX testing currencies are harmless. However, if nothing else, this is an opportunity to remind people what extending trust means and that you should always be careful, especially if extending trust to multiple parties for the same currency code (something I've said many times before).
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Re: Bitcointalk.org scam(?) warning

Postby ervalvola » Thu May 16, 2013 7:45 pm

He's smart, he said:
B) I won't defraud/scam you out of any money. Yes, you can convert the BTC I send you to real BTCs. For continued discussion, send me a PM, responses will be deleted from this point.


Both of the assertions are true, in fact:

1) He won't probably stole money from that wallet. But he's allowing OTHERS to change IOUs issued by him with trustworthy IOUS. He could do that by himself from an anonimous wallet...

2) If in that trust network there are people with reedemable IOUS, so it's actually possible to convert his empty IOUs exploiting them, as well exlplained by dchapes...

I've already reported that post to moderators, but nothing happened yet. I find absurd that you can open a self-moderated thread in the newbye section too... it's a great present for scammers....
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Re: Bitcointalk.org scam(?) warning

Postby ervalvola » Thu May 16, 2013 8:32 pm

I wrote a denunciation post, support me if you want

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=207535.0
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Re: Bitcointalk.org scam(?) warning

Postby datz » Thu May 16, 2013 9:44 pm

TradeFortress :twisted: #falseprophet has stepped on the wrong toes. He is delaying progress. His actions will not be tolerated.
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